<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1582</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	12/26/99 5:15:01 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Sunday, December 26 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1582<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Off Topic  - Re: winning, losing, and not winning wars (was re: England)<BR>
Re: Football( was Re: [OT] War of 1812)<BR>
Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
OTP - Re: Geographical idiocy (<BR>
AuricTech Large Freightliner for T4 (longish)<BR>
Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
Re: England<BR>
Re: England<BR>
Re: England<BR>
Re: The War of 1812<BR>
Re: The War of 1812<BR>
Re: An illustrated Traveller universe<BR>
Re: 3I Sports<BR>
Re: Football( was Re: [OT] War of 1812)<BR>
RE TEXAS during the USCW<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 21:23:40 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Off Topic  - Re: winning, losing, and not winning wars (was re: England)<BR>
<BR>
At 05:47 PM 12/24/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>At 02:26 pm 12/24/99 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>>Booth killed Lincoln in 1865, just after the war was<BR>
>>over.  Lincoln did not have time to set up the iron<BR>
>>thumb (although his field commanders, occupying the<BR>
><BR>
>	I'm not a historian, but I thought it was *Lincoln* who wanted<BR>
>reconciliation and rebuilding, and the rest of the party that wanted<BR>
>vengeance. Killing Lincoln probably made things *worse* for the South<BR>
>...<BR>
><BR>
        Off Topic.<BR>
        2 minutes in the "no keyboard penalty box".<BR>
<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 18:36:16 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Football( was Re: [OT] War of 1812)<BR>
<BR>
On 12/25/99 at 09:40 PM,  "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk> said:<BR>
<BR>
>I should point out that I have no idea of the accuracy of the figure 40lb<BR>
<BR>
>I was merely quoting Giles The Englishman from Buffy The Vampire Slayer.<BR>
<BR>
I figured as much.  <g> <BR>
<BR>
It might be a little high, but for linemen and fullbacks 40 lbs wouldn't<BR>
surprise me. <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 19:19:23 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
<BR>
On 12/25/99 at 02:55 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>
<BR>
 ...<BR>
>>>>I don't see why not, the idea is cute, a refugee fleet, being pursued by<BR>
>> the enemy.<BR>
><BR>
>>>And under Traveller rules, they are somewhat better off. Hydrogen Fuel<BR>
>>>is a *lot* easier to get than the stuff they were always running out of. <BR>
<BR>
>>   Depends how many refuelling assets they retain (hmm, attackers kept<BR>
>> going for tankers - some things never change...); even some of the<BR>
>> stream-lined civ ships were such rust-buckets that surviving a<BR>
>> skimming run was far from guaranteed.<BR>
<BR>
>If I was Adama, the fleet would normal jump to the outer system,<BR>
>preferably after scouts located a suitable "iceball". Skimming would be<BR>
>*suicide* with that mess.<BR>
<BR>
>Also, outer system iceballs would tend to have a lot of badly needed life<BR>
>support chemicals.<BR>
<BR>
Guys, don't give them jump drives.  They need to say in normal space<BR>
between the stars.  Give them a modified form of stutterwarp. Instead of<BR>
having a ly limit, have them "burn" a fuel as they stutter, thus having to<BR>
refuel ever so often, and the fuel can be something rare and more likely<BR>
to be found in the quantities you nee in inner systems.  Heck, if you<BR>
tinker it up you can even produce the banking Vipers! Isn't that what the<BR>
fighters were called? ;-)<BR>
<BR>
I like pitting them against the K'kree, but how about taking this in a<BR>
slightly different direction.  Put this at about 1600 (500 years after<BR>
Virus).  This "rag-tag band" are the remnants of a pocket empire that<BR>
developed far beyond the Black Curtain.  However, now their homeworld and<BR>
colonies are destroyed and they are being pursued by a race of Virus<BR>
animated robots who call themselves Cylons.  IIRC, the leader of the<BR>
Cylons was Lucifer...not far from Lucan.  <g> IAC, these refugees have<BR>
legends about Earth, Solomani enclave maybe, but to get there they have to<BR>
circle the Cylon Empire sending them through K'kree territory....<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 21:25:29 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: OTP - Re: Geographical idiocy (<BR>
<BR>
At 02:59 PM 12/24/99 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
        [snip]<BR>
>Fording the San Joaquin in the high Sierras last<BR>
>summer was an enjoyable challenge.  I think I'm<BR>
>getting a pair of neoprene kayaking shoes to wear as<BR>
>camp shoes and for river/stream/creek crossings.  So<BR>
>far as I know, we don't call them branches in the<BR>
>west.<BR>
><BR>
>--Glenn<BR>
<BR>
        Off Topic.<BR>
<BR>
        2 minutes in the "no keyboard penalty box".<BR>
<BR>
        Happy Holidays!<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
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	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 19:36:58 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: AuricTech Large Freightliner for T4 (longish)<BR>
<BR>
Here's the AuricTech take on the large freightliners that are the<BR>
lifeblood of Imperial trade.  It's 20,000 dtons, Jump-2, and TL-12. <BR>
BTW, according to the Akins spreadsheet ver. 3.2, it makes an annual<BR>
profit of over MCr 26, at 80% capacity.<BR>
<BR>
If THUDDD 11 ends up going with the commerce raider, this will be the<BR>
largest expected target vessel, so plan accordingly.<BR>
<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards _Ghartrz Star_ Large Freightliner<BR>
<BR>
Tons: 20000 std (SL Sphere Hypersonic) <BR>
Dimensions: 81.2 m diameter<BR>
Volume: 280000 m3<BR>
Cargo: 11460 std (200 hatches, Hdl: 200 x 40 t) <BR>
Mass (L/C): 242496 t / 78017 t <BR>
Maintenance Points: 3647<BR>
Passengers High/Med: 100 High / 224 Med<BR>
Crew: 94 / 160 <BR>
Frozen Watch: 0<BR>
Cost: 4088.231 MCr   (Cost Multiplier .8 for standard design)<BR>
Tech Level: 12<BR>
Size: 10 <BR>
<BR>
Electronics<BR>
Controls: Dynamic, High automation.). 3 x Comp (CM: .35 CP: 2.86).<BR>
Terrain following sensors (TF: 480 NOE: 160). Bridge.<BR>
Communications: 2 x Radio (1,000 AU, 0.2 MW). 4 x Laser (1,000 AU, 0<BR>
MW).<BR>
Sensors: 1xPEMS (12.5 [1.6 mkm], 0 MW). 1xAEMS (11 [.16 mkm] LP, .13<BR>
MW). 2 x LIDAR (14 [200 kkm], 0.2 MW).<BR>
Survey/Science: None<BR>
ECM: None<BR>
Signatures: Vis: 0, IR: 1 (0.5 at 9856 MW, 0.5 at 1070 MW), Act: 0.5,<BR>
Neu: 1, Grav: 1<BR>
<BR>
Performance <BR>
2 Jump (2000 std/pc fuel) <BR>
1 / 3 Maneuver (Thruster: 5761 MW)<BR>
No Contra-grav <BR>
1672 kph/3880 kph Atmosphere Maximum <BR>
1254 kph/2910 kph Atmosphere Cruise <BR>
1 Power (Fusion: 10700 MW,1yr) <BR>
0 Battery<BR>
4115.1 Fuel (Scoop:3 / Purif: 48, 43 MW) <BR>
374/110/0/121 Accommodations (SmStRoom/LargeStRoom/Low Berth/Emgy Low<BR>
Berth) <BR>
5808 Life Sup. (Type:Extended, Excellent Food/Storage) <BR>
1 G-Comp <BR>
8 Sandcasters (AV: 150 / Cans: 35)<BR>
0 [20] Armor, 44 Structure <BR>
<BR>
Weapons:  4 x Turret (+0) 1/ 2-0-0-0 [1, 800/20-10-5-2] (Long range]<BR>
<BR>
Features:<BR>
200 x Airlock <BR>
1 x Electronic Shop (6 std ea)<BR>
2 x Machine Shop (10 std ea)<BR>
3 x Sickbay (8 std ea)<BR>
2 x Ship's locker (10 std ea.)<BR>
4 x Prisoner capacity (2 Mdm security, 2 High security)<BR>
2 x Armory (2.14 std ea)<BR>
6 x Gym (2.5 std ea)<BR>
3 x Lounge (60 std ea)<BR>
6 x Ordinary Galley (Cap: 70 ea)<BR>
2 x Full Galley (Cap: 60 ea) <BR>
<BR>
Small Craft: <BR>
6 x Docking Ring (30 std)<BR>
4 x Docking Ring (50 std)<BR>
<BR>
Backups <BR>
Drives: None <BR>
Screens: None<BR>
Communications: <BR>
Sensors: 1 x PEMS (12.5 [1.6 mkm]).  1 x AEMS (11 [.16 mkm] LP)<BR>
ECM: None <BR>
Power & Fuel: Fusion (600 MW) <BR>
<BR>
Crew Details: 2 x Maneuver.  67 x Engineer.  6 x Maintenance.  4 x<BR>
Gunner.  8 x Screen.  18 x Flight.  12 x Troops.  19 x Command.  3 x<BR>
Medical.  21 x Steward.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 21:52:42 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
<BR>
At 09:36 PM 12/24/99 PST, you wrote:<BR>
>For lack of anything better to use as background noise, I was watching<BR>
>the Battlestar Galactica marathon on the Sci-Fi channel earlier today.<BR>
>And I had a silly thought.<BR>
><BR>
>*Could* the BG background be salavaged from all the bad science and<BR>
>worse writing and turned into a campaign?<BR>
><BR>
>-- <BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
<BR>
        Hi, Leonard....<BR>
<BR>
        The short version is "nope".  Single 100dton vessels are incapable<BR>
of trashing million-dton super-dreadnaughts...  in BG, this was always a<BR>
threat.  I *suppose* the dodge there is to allow nuclear weapons and<BR>
disallow nuclear dampers;  worse, allow multi-megaton<BR>
"single-shot-ship-wrecker" designs from SS:3 and disallow nuclear damper...<BR>
<BR>
        2nd, 100dton dreadnaughts *can* trash a million dton<BR>
super-dreadnaught...  which means that the Cylons should, in thier imicably<BR>
straightforward fashion, simply send a herd of 100dkton maulers to all fire<BR>
*only* on the BG, and then they can mop up the rest of the fleet at thier<BR>
liesure.<BR>
<BR>
        The only possible way to make this work is if you give the humans<BR>
some tech advantage (BG carries the only working meson weapon....  the<BR>
humans never had a chance to build another ship with this brutally effective<BR>
technology...  the Cylons, therefore, never "evolved" a defensive screen ..<BR>
yet).  Which sounds like handwaving.<BR>
<BR>
        There is no good reason that twelve human worlds fighting for 1000<BR>
years and haven't beaten the Cylons would suddenly be able to hold them at<BR>
bay indefinately with a "rag-tag fleet" of a fist full of warships and the<BR>
balance in frieghters and transports....<BR>
<BR>
        Now, that having been said, the BGU seems to use a "stutterwarp"<BR>
like drive systems allowing them to be engaged while cruising through space<BR>
in FTL mode...  Put the original 12 worlds in the *middle* of the Cylon<BR>
Empire (they got surrounded in the past 1000 years as the Cylons but the<BR>
chromed boots to every other race in the area) and have to flee at JP2 to<BR>
the border and beyond....  That might be interesting...  the time lag<BR>
associated with Cylon picket ships needing a week to inform other units that<BR>
they saw the Human Fleet at such and such a star would be *just* enough to<BR>
keep the Daggits nipping at the runners on the sliegh, but not nessecarily<BR>
able to "corner" them...  so long as the Humans keep moving.<BR>
<BR>
        Treat Galactica as a jump-capable combat-monster space-dock, able to<BR>
service and repair other starships as well as able to function as a ship of<BR>
the line...  that way, the Fleet can evade the maintainence problems;  so<BR>
long as they raid or harvest worlds for raw materials.<BR>
<BR>
        The "Viper" would need to be a zero-range fighter;  sub-100dtons and<BR>
therefore non-jump (based on the scenes in the movie and series, its too<BR>
small...).  The Humans, therefore, would have some long-range two-man<BR>
scout-fighter that the PC would be flying, Jp2.  The Cylon Raider looked<BR>
*big*...  three crew...  handwave it to 100dtons and make it jump-capable.<BR>
<BR>
        Ok, I take it back.  It *could* be done.  How much damage you'd do<BR>
to its "canon" to wedge it into a Traveller rules-set, I dunno...<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	"Reality Error in Progress....<BR>
			       ....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"	<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 22:01:34 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
<BR>
At 05:19 AM 12/25/99 PST, you wrote:<BR>
>Okay, any gearheads out there want to design the Galactica, A<BR>
>representative BaseStar, and the fighters for both sides. <BR>
><BR>
>Designs for members of the "ragtag fleet" would be nice too. <BR>
><BR>
>Especially the kludged together "jump tender" idea and bunches of large<BR>
>but non-jump craft to attach to it. <BR>
><BR>
>-- <BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
<BR>
        I'll give the Galactica, the Viper and the <Scout-Fighter> a shot<BR>
while I am at the relatives' this weekend....<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 22:22:53 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
<BR>
At 06:26 PM 12/25/99 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Okay, any gearheads out there want to design the Galactica, A<BR>
>> representative BaseStar, and the fighters for both sides.<BR>
><BR>
>The problem I've run into so far is that I haven't been able to find any<BR>
>definitive information on Galactica's size.  One source indicates a<BR>
>length of _4025_ meters....<BR>
><BR>
>BTW, what TL is the BSG universe?<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Designs for members of the "ragtag fleet" would be nice too.<BR>
><BR>
>For at least some of the "ragtag fleet", you can use canonical ships.<BR>
<BR>
        Well, according to the official Marvel comic adaptation of the<BR>
movie, in the section which has notes and detailing about the movie and BGU,<BR>
they say that there are 221 ships which begin the journey.<BR>
<BR>
        Options for travel are v-near-c drives or "hyperdrive" which allows<BR>
a ship to "warp out of ine area, and reappear a short time later in normal<BR>
space an incredible distance away...."   (sounds like jump-srive to me!)<BR>
<BR>
        "Tylium" is the unstable fuel (it reduces to "solium", which is<BR>
explosive), and they remark that most ships cannot be fitted with<BR>
light-speed drives, but most can be equipped with hyperdrive.<BR>
<BR>
        Another remark they make is that while the Twelve Colonies have been<BR>
at war with the Cylons for almost 1000 years, they depended almost entirely<BR>
on the firepower of the dozen battlestars and the horde of "short ranged"<BR>
fighters they each carried.<BR>
<BR>
        Another remark is that the entire crew compliment of the Galactica<BR>
is "close to 500, and about half of these are pilots and infantrymen".  In<BR>
another area, it says "every battlestar carries a full compliment of 75<BR>
short-range fighters".<BR>
<BR>
        I would say that a 4km-long vessel would not work under HG rules to<BR>
get this kind of result.  402.5m, perhaps.<BR>
<BR>
        However, in several scenes, the relative scaling of other craft<BR>
makes the 4025m figure more believable.  Perhaps for our adaptation it<BR>
should be 5000 crew and 750 fighters?<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 21:06:53 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
<BR>
Michel Vaillancourt wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
>         Another remark is that the entire crew compliment of the Galactica<BR>
> is "close to 500, and about half of these are pilots and infantrymen".  In<BR>
> another area, it says "every battlestar carries a full compliment of 75<BR>
> short-range fighters".<BR>
> <BR>
>         I would say that a 4km-long vessel would not work under HG rules to<BR>
> get this kind of result.  402.5m, perhaps.<BR>
> <BR>
>         However, in several scenes, the relative scaling of other craft<BR>
> makes the 4025m figure more believable.  Perhaps for our adaptation it<BR>
> should be 5000 crew and 750 fighters?<BR>
<BR>
Well, according to the .jpg I downloaded from a S:AAB site, SARATOGA<BR>
from S:AAB displaces about 720,000 dtons, and is 525.6 meters long. <BR>
(Note that both SARATOGA and GALACTICA would probably be considered USL<BR>
Slab configuration ships.)  Thus, any ship much larger would exceed the<BR>
1000 kdton limit in HG.  OTOH, SARATOGA carries 168 SA-43 "Hammerheads",<BR>
along with a number of larger utility craft (ISSCV/ISSAPC).<BR>
<BR>
Scaling down to practical ships in Traveller, GALACTICA would be about<BR>
equivalent to a TIGRESS (500 kdton, 300 fighters), give or take a bit.<BR>
<BR>
I can see a relatively small multi-world polity (the Twelve Colonies)<BR>
building several TIGRESS-sized ships as a primary naval striking force. <BR>
Loss of most of these ships could, indeed, leave the home worlds largely<BR>
undefended.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 03:10:10 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Highly Heretical TU idea<BR>
<BR>
>Well, according to the .jpg I downloaded from a S:AAB site, SARATOGA<BR>
>from S:AAB displaces about 720,000 dtons, and is 525.6 meters long.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The folks at S:AAB measure ship size in dtons? And here was me thinking it<BR>
was just us Trav gearheads... We live and learn.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 12:26:26 -0500<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: England<BR>
<BR>
Was written:<BR>
<BR>
>What matters most in the war is that your people be the last people<BR>
>standing. Even if that means suckering someone else into making<BR>
>a pile of their own dead on your behalf (Russia for England's WW2<BR>
>benefit, Taiwan's current apparent willingness to fight mainland China<BR>
>to the last drop of American blood...).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Reminds me of the old joke about why the Egyptians made peace with Israel.<BR>
<BR>
It seems that Sadat was listening to a speech by one of the more<BR>
intransigent Arab leaders whose zeal for war was inverse proportion to his<BR>
country's distance from Israel, Kadaffi if memory serves me right.  When<BR>
Kadaffi swore that the next war would be fought to the last Egyptian Sadat<BR>
saw the light.<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 17:14:22 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: England<BR>
<BR>
 Frank Pitt wrote:<BR>
> <<snip>><BR>
> > > Australia was likewise too far, with too much water<BR>
> > > and too many American warships in between.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Hmm, American warships didn't help until the US had some in the area,<BR>
and<BR>
> > the invasion of Australia was largely avoided by a stout defence of New<BR>
> > Guinea by Australian, New Zealand, and British troops.<BR>
><BR>
> Well, there _was_ the Battle of the Coral Sea (May 1942), in which a US<BR>
> Navy carrier task force turned back a Japanese attempt to invade Port<BR>
> Moresby by sea.  (Yes, I know that Task Group 17.3 [Support Group],<BR>
> commanded by RN Rear Admiral Crace, had 2 Australian cruisers, but the<BR>
> primary fighting was conducted by carrier air strikes.)<BR>
<BR>
I did say they didn't help until they got there, I fully admit it was the US<BR>
that was mainly responsible for victory in the Pacific.<BR>
<BR>
But without the colonial defenders that were there 1941, there would likely<BR>
have already been Japanese troops in Port Moresby by May 1942.<BR>
<BR>
> 'Nuff said.  (Actually, probably _more_ than enough said on this<BR>
> off-topic thread.)<BR>
<BR>
True, but I'm afraid I don't know enough about the progress of the Fifth<BR>
Frontier War to argue about it !<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 22:20:49 -0600<BR>
From: tim@premier.net<BR>
Subject: Re: England<BR>
<BR>
From:           	"Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
To:             	<traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Subject:        	Re: England<BR>
Date sent:      	Sat, 25 Dec 1999 12:26:26 -0500<BR>
Send reply to:  	traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
<BR>
> Was written:<BR>
> <BR>
> >What matters most in the war is that your people be the last people<BR>
> >standing. Even if that means suckering someone else into making<BR>
> >a pile of their own dead on your behalf (Russia for England's WW2<BR>
> >benefit, Taiwan's current apparent willingness to fight mainland China<BR>
> >to the last drop of American blood...).<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Reminds me of the old joke about why the Egyptians made peace with Israel.<BR>
> <BR>
> It seems that Sadat was listening to a speech by one of the more<BR>
> intransigent Arab leaders whose zeal for war was inverse proportion to his<BR>
> country's distance from Israel, Kadaffi if memory serves me right.  When<BR>
> Kadaffi swore that the next war would be fought to the last Egyptian Sadat<BR>
> saw the light.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Or as more Political/Military/Defences Policy instructor put it.  Let <BR>
them  fight for you and make them say thank you for it.  Thats how <BR>
we took the Atlantic from the GB during WWII.  Let me point out <BR>
that every power that rose to take control of the world system <BR>
inclunding England (ask a Russian or German and France, or <BR>
anyone of her old colonies)  thats just how things work.  <BR>
<BR>
The real quesetion for me thoough how does this applie in a M:0 <BR>
setting.  Who or Whom were the Imperiums allies at this time.  <BR>
Espically right around Sylen.   <BR>
Tim Reynolds<BR>
tim@premier.net <BR>
225-334-5063<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable <BR>
sexual disease.  It made you unsuitable for <BR>
a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.<BR>
<BR>
Terry Pratchett <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 17:06:38 +1200<BR>
From: rfields@actrix.gen.nz (Richard Fields)<BR>
Subject: Re: The War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
Thank you all your ability to conduct a discussion on TML about the War of<BR>
1812 has gone a long way to increase my estimation of the maturity of TMLs<BR>
membership.<BR>
<BR>
Having been (physicaly) stood over and screamed at by (NZ)university<BR>
intelectuals about outbursts of cultural unsafety and fragility of the<BR>
collective ego the American people and leactured specifficly about the<BR>
unPCness of mentioning The War of 1812, abolition, the Battles of Willis<BR>
and Queen Streets etc, demeaned over objecting to being spamed, put down<BR>
for resenting intrusion by Muilt Level Marketers, your discussions have<BR>
been greatfully read by this tired lurker.<BR>
<BR>
Once again. Thank you all.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
Richard Fields<BR>
<BR>
Make Errors? MAKE ERRORS!<BR>
You insult me!<BR>
I do not make errors like some plebillion worker. I am a craftsman, I<BR>
create those intracate Fubars, those dellicate and subtle twists of the<BR>
beuracracy that lie in wait for months before exposing themselves, and take<BR>
months more to correct.<BR>
'Make', huh!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 23:03:31 -0600<BR>
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
>Thank you all your ability to conduct a discussion on TML about the War of<BR>
>1812 has gone a long way to increase my estimation of the maturity of TMLs<BR>
>membership.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I think we are pretty much mature adults. The only time I ever lost it over<BR>
the War of 1812 was when I was on a tour of the Capital Building<BR>
this October and actually had to explain to my history teachers ( I am dept.<BR>
ehad at<BR>
my school ) that Washington was assaulted in the war.<BR>
Nothing like making History teachers look stupid :)<BR>
<BR>
Then again, they all teach Texas History anyway :)<BR>
<BR>
TV<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 01:26:18 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: An illustrated Traveller universe<BR>
<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Have you tried Metacreation's Poser?  Very nice human modeling<BR>
>program. Has horse, dog & Raptor figures as well.  There is also a<BR>
>MAC version. You can vary skin tones and morph figures.<BR>
<BR>
I am just a poor student looking for *cheap* thrills. I might see the $200<BR>
to get a copy of Poser a few years from now, though! ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 02:06:32 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: 3I Sports<BR>
<BR>
From: i Steve <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> And of course there's racing in several incarnations.  If anyone's<BR>
>seen the PC/Playstation game WipeOut (high speed grav vehicle<BR>
>racing with weapons) it  seems perfect for Trav to me...kind of a far<BR>
>future Formula One.<BR>
<BR>
The series also has, without a doubt, the snazziest graphic design of any<BR>
video game, and one of the best soundtracks. And it's fun to play!Oh, if<BR>
only the pen and paper roleplaying industry would take a cue from the<BR>
Wipeout series, at least with respect to graphic design.<BR>
<BR>
What sports are there in the Third Imperium? This is a really serious<BR>
question, as sports in the real world have become more than just a bunch of<BR>
people playing a game.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 02:56:09<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Football( was Re: [OT] War of 1812)<BR>
<BR>
At 06:36 PM 12/25/1999 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>It might be a little high, but for linemen and fullbacks 40 lbs wouldn't<BR>
>surprise me. <BR>
<BR>
A lot high.  The entire uniform, including pads, helmet, etc., doesn't<BR>
weigh more than 20 lbs.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 04:15:11 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: RE TEXAS during the USCW<BR>
<BR>
item 1: I stand corrected... based upon a review of some sources provided<BR>
by TV, I can see the sources I was taught with were Grade A-1 *SCREWED*.<BR>
<BR>
item 2: Thomas' rebuttal post was, while a small bit over capitalized,<BR>
perfectly reasonable in tone; caps excluded. And similar in approach to<BR>
many of my posts, as well as some other noteables on the list.<BR>
But this all brought me to a wonderful bit of a scenario idea.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
==========<BR>
Historian's Gambit - A Patron Encounter<BR>
<BR>
[preface]<BR>
The hardest thing to do, it seems, is to admit error... especially in areas<BR>
within or near one's field of endeavor. Even more so when the sources are<BR>
fuzzy.... This encounter assumes one or more party members with a bent<BR>
towards Imperial History, and is ideally suited for the timeframe of the<BR>
late 3I. Note that the players as well as the characters should share the<BR>
interest. Closer to Capitol is better, but not an absolute necessity.<BR>
[Begin Text]<BR>
The party is contacted by a noted researcher, one Aanerii Shushugliarii, a<BR>
local research historian specializing in the Imperial Civil War and<BR>
Barracks Emperors. He is trying to find research assistants, and a mutual<BR>
acquaintace reccomended [insert party member(s)] as being somewhat versed<BR>
in the period, and able researchers. Aanerii has recently found a set of<BR>
genetic scans of Zhakirov, done in 664, in a data warehouse of Sharushiid.<BR>
These scans clearly lable him as Crown Prince Shakirov Alkhalikoi, include<BR>
holographic data, and multiple pieces of corroboration as to their<BR>
authenticity. Most troubling, though is that they do not match the scans<BR>
done by the imperial physicians at his birth, investure, or induction into<BR>
Imperial Service. A nearby world has confirmed that they have numerous<BR>
records relating to the era as well, including genetic scans, but the<BR>
finding aid does not list individuals in the genetic database of the<BR>
timeframe. Aanerii is hoping to employ the characters to ferret out of the<BR>
thousands of records in the duplicate warehouse corroboration of the scans,<BR>
make duplicates, and bring them back to him for comparison. Aanerii is<BR>
hoping it was an error in identification of Zhakirov. Aanerii promises Cr<BR>
20,000 for the research, plus travel expenses, as his teaching load<BR>
prevents him from doing the research himself. He also will make the<BR>
arraingements for any needed data acesses. (He has priveledges with<BR>
Sharushiid for their whole data wharehouse network, and can authorize up to<BR>
4 associates to research there. He will gladly expand the research purview<BR>
on their papers for their own pet project, as well, if the party so<BR>
requests.)<BR>
Aanerii will check the PC's credentials, looking for semi-professional<BR>
levels of skill in some appropriate fields (MT: History 2+, computer 1+;<BR>
T4: Research 2+ History 2+ Computer 1+; TNE: Research asset 12+, History<BR>
Asset 10+)<BR>
<BR>
[results]<BR>
Roll 1d6:<BR>
1	Everything is exactly what it seems. A mysterious duplicate with<BR>
incredibly well forged papers was in the area, living it up. Enough reseach<BR>
will also reveal that the Fake Zhakirov originated at a point several jumps<BR>
away from where the scan was taken, which just happened to be where the<BR>
real Zhakirov was at. Further research, if the PC's are willing, will<BR>
eventually reveal that Sharushiid discovered the fraud, but not in time to<BR>
capture the individual. Aanerii will gladly pay another Cr20,000 for a<BR>
fully documented essay for his next textbook, which will entail furhter<BR>
research by the players, but will gain them some reputation in local<BR>
academia.<BR>
2	As 1, except that Aanerii was hoping to discredit the Alkhalikoi<BR>
line by proving that there was a coverup, and will quietly pay the<BR>
characters, and swallow it painfully.<BR>
3	The scans are correct, but the identity is wrong. Zhakirov's scan<BR>
is mixed up with Erik Chaimberlain's, but the rest of the files are<BR>
correct. Sufficient research in either the records of security, medical, or<BR>
the originating world will reveal the authenticity of Erik's scan, and a<BR>
check with the Imperial Archives will verify that Erik's records contain<BR>
the real Zhakirov's data. The two do, however, look remarkably similar.<BR>
Enerii is mildy annoyed, but pays up. If the PC's have something juicy for<BR>
him, though, even if not related to their research, he'll gladly provide<BR>
further patronage in exchange for publication rights on their findings.<BR>
4	Aanerii is a fraud. A bad researcher, a bad historian, he's simply<BR>
looking for any way to discredit Sharushiid. There is no scan, and the<BR>
whole is a wild goose chase. It will, however, lead the players into<BR>
Sharushiid's sting to try and find who's been "adding" to their archives.<BR>
The local warehouse does not recognize Aanerii's supposed credentials, but<BR>
will assist the PC's anyway. If confronted, Aanerii will fail to pay, and<BR>
disappear for a while. Additionally, he's published something as an article<BR>
under the appropriate PC's name, snd it is purely nonsense. The legal fun<BR>
in getting it squelched, and in clearing their names becomes QUITE the<BR>
adventure.<BR>
5	The records, when found, cross reference in the archive, into<BR>
several secure files. If the PC's hack, cajole, or otherwise find there way<BR>
into the secure files, they uncover a Sharushiid kidnap, replacement, and<BR>
substitution. They worked a major conspiracy to put a sharushiid-friendly<BR>
"false Emperor" on the throne. Their false emeperor was one Erik<BR>
Chaimberlain, a Sharuishiid mamagement employee, who originally bore a<BR>
remarkable resemblance to Zhakirov. See [n1].<BR>
6	as per 5, but including replacement of his reporductive organs and<BR>
bone marrow with Zhakirov's, and retrogenic therapy to prevent rejection.<BR>
So Zhakirov's heirs are really the real Zhakirov's heirs. Additionally,<BR>
they used a zhodani agent to read the Real Zhakirov's mind, and implant his<BR>
basic knowledge and mannerisms (but not politics); The real goal was to<BR>
prevent another frontier war, and put a puppet of the Consulate on the<BR>
throne. See [n1].<BR>
<BR>
n1: In either case, Aanerii's recation should be rolled for, on 1d6:<BR>
1: 	Aanerii wants to go public with it, but will only do so if the PC's<BR>
agree. He pays up as promised in either case.<BR>
2:	Aanerii wants to ignore the data. He won't publish, but won't stop<BR>
the PC's from publishing. He will only pay in full if they agree not to<BR>
publish, but will pay half in any case.<BR>
3:	Aanerii wants to bury the data, and contacts friends in low places<BR>
to eradicate the PC's, as they know too much. He'll pay, but double cross.<BR>
He's really working for the consulate.<BR>
4:	Aanerii wants to bury the data, and wants the PC's to help him<BR>
destroy the evidence files. He'll fund (and go with) an expidition to set a<BR>
delayed data-bomb virus in a large number of data warehouses that have<BR>
duplicates of the data. If the PC's ever check his source of funds, they<BR>
will find he's imperially funded.<BR>
5:	As 4, except he's funded by the [(1-3) consulate (4-5) Sharuushiid<BR>
(6)some other group], and needs to cover their role in the whole affair. He<BR>
wants to [(1-3) edit the data (4-6) destroy the data as in 4].<BR>
6:	Aanerii attempts to discredit the whole alkhalikoi line. IRIS or<BR>
INI or some other set of spooks will try to enlist the characters in<BR>
hushing him.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1582<BR>
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